Monday, April 27, 2009

Big Dinosaurs ... small reptiles

You appear to be right about the petroglyph, the pictures I posted do not seem to go out far enough, so I will have to try to find some others to confirm or deny the man image. This of course does not change the fact that when totally outlined the glyph looks much less like a sauropod than in the image on BIBLE.CA

As far as reptiles growing to extremely large sizes -- here is an article about a Galapagos tortoise that just turned 175

While I admit that tortoises are large animals, exactly how old would a tortoise have to be to reach sauropod size ?

I have noticed one other problem with modern reptiles growing to dinosaur size. Look at the legs -- every modern day reptile has splayed legs. Now ... take a look at all dinosaurs, they ALL show legs under their bodies ... like an elephant -- even the juveniles show this. Why? .. the reason is that supporting hundreds of tons with splayed legs, if not impossible would be incredibly inefficient. If indeed given time, reptiles are 'designed' to get as large as dinosaurs, then it is a poor design indeed.

Now we will move on to more authoritative sources
from Discover magazine:

"Fast-growing animals expand their bones continually when they’re young, and some of their old tissue gets destroyed as new bone forms. By contrast, the bones of many slow-growing animals look like tree rings because the animals grow in short bursts.

These microscopic clues survive in fossils. For example, researchers have studied the bones from an 80-million-year-old crocodile called Deinosuchus that could grow to 50 feet long. They concluded that it reached its huge size the way crocodiles do today, growing for 50 years or more.

"Dinosaurs were different. “They did not grow like typical reptiles,” says Kevin Padian, a paleontologist at the University of California at Berkeley. Tyrannosaurus rex, for example, took only 20 years to reach full size. But the biggest dinosaurs were off the charts. Apatosaurus (also called Brontosaurus), one of the long-necked plant eaters known as sauropods, needed only 15 years to reach 25 tons. “They’re just growing faster than anything on land today,” says Padian. "

Here is an article from the National Academy of Sciences discussion sexual maturity and more importantly the growth rate of dinosaurs.

Here's a hit from Google books explaining that modern reptiles do not grow in the same manner as dinosaurs did

And There is also much speculation that dinosaurs were endothermic -- that is warm blooded. - this would remove them from the reptilian model all together -

So as you can see there is little evidence that dinosaurs grew at the same rate as reptiles today.


  1. All this really brings me back to my original point that there is no reason why dinosaurs would be any more difficult to bring on the ark than any other creature. In fact, your evidence that dinosaurs grew faster than modern reptiles jibes quite nicely with the theory that the world was a much better place to live before the flood, allowing animals and people to live very long lives and grow very large. It all comes down to what you do with the evidence.

  2. Well .. except for the space issue. You have suggested that they were not adults when they were brought on the ark -- do you have any scripture to back that up ? Or is that something someone made up to make it work ?

    But, for the sake of argument lets say dinosaurs were on the ark.

    Now please explain why we don't find dinosaur fossils in the same rock strata as lion and tigers and bears ? Or any other modern animal.

    Why don't modern animal bones date the same as dinosaur bones? Even if the dating method is in error, then it would be consistently in error giving similar results for all bones dated using that method.

    Never mind modern animals, why aren't dinosaurs from the Jurassic period found with dinosaurs from the cretaceous period or the Triassic period?

    Why don't the cave paintings in France show dinosaurs ?

    Also please tell me when in your time line dinosaurs became extinct and why ?

    Given the apparent worldwide distribution of dinosaurs, including the antarctic, do you think that given your time line, dinosaurs could have multiplied spread through out the world from Mount Ararat and become extinct ?

    There are clearly more question than answers brought up by the story of the ark. The god-did-it answer is a matter of faith, faith by its nature is belief without proof. Which is fine if you so desire, but if I am going to accept anything without proof is would it would be fairies. I think faeries are much more interesting that god --but that is me.

  3. One quick question: how do you determine which dinosaurs are from the Jurassic period, which are from the Cretaceous Period, or from the Triassic period?

  4. Hi tofor

    Fossils are found in the same strata all the dinosaurs that are classified as being from the Triassic are found in the same layers of strata. Likewise Dinosaurs from the Jurassic and Cretaceous period are found in their respective layers.

    This seems to be a pretty good site for an overview of all the ages of the earth and the kinds of animals that existed during those periods. The link here point to the Triassic period, but you can navigate back and forth to the Jurassic and the Cretaceous (and more if yo so desire)

    If you are interested in an overview of dating methods try this

  5. What you are saying is that the fossils found in Triassic layers are Triassic, and those found in the Jurassic period are Jurassic? Do you know how they determine which layer is Triassic? They find Triassic fossils in it.

  6. If you look at my next post there is a video that discusses strata and the flood.

    The first link in the post above discusses each of the periods of the earth and the years they encompassed

    It seems to me that each period is marked by mass extinctions. For example there was a mass extinction of dinosaurs at the end of the Cretaceous period which led to the Paleogene Period and the rise of mammals.

    The Triassic was 251 Million to 199 Million Years Ago (why they named this date range the Triassic I don't know)

    The second link above discusses how they date dinosaur bones.

    Once a dinosaur bone is dated they can determine what period it is from.